1. What is your best advice on hiring practices?

• Make sure the person fits your culture. Competency is important but you can teach skill set, but you can’t teach fit or hunger. 

• Hiring internally, because that person has already chosen to be at your church, and it increases the likelihood that it will be a good cultural fit. 

• Be patient and thorough. 

• We tend to hire based on skill set and fire based on character. Skill can be taught. It’s much harder to teach character. I’ve started weighing character very heavily, while not completely throwing out skills. 

• Cluster hiring is not only good for companies, but often it works for churches as it offers a glue that is needed among staff. 

• Don’t jump at the first person that looks good. Be Holy Spirit lead. Look at the gifts and talents that were placed in them. Look as if you can train them and give them lots of space to advance in who they are. 

• Hire heart, not knowledge/education…hopefully you get both. 

• Create a robust hiring system or event. Have multiple trained leaders look at the candidates to avoid biases. Hire for culture, not for competence. 

• Take your time. Character and Culture fit over gift. 

• Hire slowly. Time is your ally. 

• Look for a servant who walks daily with God in prayer and time in the Word. Look for someone who hasn’t/doesn’t move around a lot from one job to another. 

• Do not let the need drive the decision. Every time we have made a rushed hire out of a need in the organization it has been a negative experience. We have also learned that the one or two negatives that come up in the interview process, that we think we can grow or develop them in, are typically the thorn in the flesh of their employment. Don’t overlook and be too optimistic about their shortcomings. Wait for the absolute best person for the job. Our best hires have come from being VERY slow and very picky in hiring. 

• Make sure the person can do the job (skills, gifting, education, experience, etc.), that they will do the job (work ethic, margin, capacity, season of life, etc.) and we can get along while they do the job (how well will they fit into the team dynamics and philosophy of ministry, etc.). 

• Spend as much time with them first as you can. 

2. How do you find potential candidates outside of your organization?

• Prayer, networking with other pastors/trusted colleagues, inquiry to colleges. 

• Seminary job boards, TGC job board, our network’s job board. 

• Word of mouth but also lots of online boards. Church culture matters and staff culture matters too. 

• I personally like looking for people in odd places. I look for people that have the skills to do the job but lack in who they are. 

• Listen to conversations, place myself in groups or settings where talent can be found. 

• The number one way we add new staff is recruiting from our church attenders.  

• Networks of churches and friends. 

• Personal networks are best. Depending on the level of position, professional ministry placement consultants.  

• Online platforms. 

• Contact people who are well connected with the network of pastors. Contact Christian Universities/Bible Colleges training people for ministry. 

• We have used Slingshot (paid head hunter) but to no avail. We have used churchstaffing.com which led to 3 hires in 18 years. Our best avenue has been through ministry relationships. Someone who knows someone. Myself and all staff begin to put the word out to our relationship networks. This has led to most of our best hires. 

• Social Media.

3. If an individual is selected as a finalist for a position, what are your typical steps in determining if they get the job? 

• I involve my Executive Team in the process so that we can come to an agreement on the hire. Prayer and consensus are typically the determination. 

• Interviews with elders, leaders, and staff. A written testimony geared toward our church’s vision and how they have embodied that in their lives and ministry. External interviews from trusted coaches and leaders. 

• 1) Look at their chemistry with our current leadership through social events, 2) Participation in our weekend ministry and hearing their feedback, 3) Feedback on fit from top level staff. 

• Assessments, relaxed meetings with staff to get an idea of fit, check references. 

• Skills and potential fit into the staff/church culture. 

• Can they follow a clear direction? Do they ask questions on what the task is? Can they work with others? 

• Their heart, passion, followership, and ability to build a team. 

• We have them go through an intense hiring event. 

• Leadership vote and offer. 

• Extensive questionnaire. A series of phone interviews. Site interview. In-depth look into Character, Competence, Chemistry, and theology alignment. 

• Interview with our board and staff. 

• Bring them back for final in-person interview. Give them exposure to church members and those in the ministry where they would serve, and get input from those members. 

• After multiple phone/zoom interviews with the candidate AND their spouse, background checks, referral calls and checks, credit report check (if they are not good with their own finances, they will not be good with the church’s finances – this is a huge red flag and typically a deal breaker). We then bring them in for a face-to-face weekend. No kids allowed to attend. We will not do it unless the spouse can attend as well. We often have them stay in our guest room of our home. This is not to save money but foster time and connection and getting to know them. Our goal – spend as much time as possible with them in these three days. Eating meals together, showing them around town, etc., providing opportunities for both sides to ask as many questions as possible and fully investigate the opportunity on both sides. We will also set up a lunch or meeting with the other pastoral staff members and their spouses with the candidate and his/her spouse. Our goal: Allow my team to be as transparent as possible without me in the room so the candidate can ask any question – and truly find out: “What’s it like to really work here?” Let them know the good, bad, and ugly of being an employee/pastor on this staff. This also gives my team members the opportunity to interview them as well. The big thing I’m looking for here is team chemistry and not so much qualification for the job. We work too many hours together to have a team member that doesn’t “fit” our staff culture. Although the spouse is not on the team, it is important that he/she fits the team dynamics as well. 

• The board takes a vote. 

• Prayer, background checks and references. Affirmation by other staff members. 

• We take them through an onboarding document to see if there is any rub with the culture that we are intentional in creating. My wife and I also have dinner with them if it’s a married couple. 

4. What assessments, tools, or tests do you give potential candidates? 

• Our team recently went through Enneagram together, so we ask candidates to give us insight from this study in addition to any other personality tests they have taken. I also provide opportunities for the candidate to demonstrate initiative. Depending on the position, we will have them lead a team or activity on a Sunday to get a clear picture. 

• None. We are more interested in what they’ve accomplished and their referrals. 

• It depends on the position, but usually Self-Directed Search and Revised NEO Personality Inventory. 

• I give them the assessment test on their gifts and talents to see where they are. I have them bring something in that they have done recently. 

• I invite others on my team to hear and give input/insight. Watch them interact with others during the interview. 

• Myers Briggs, Cdat. Apt testing, 2-3 initial phone/video screenings and then we bring them to an interview event. We are primarily looking to see how they fit our culture at that point. 

• Myers Briggs, enneagram, strength finds, DISC, 16 Personalities and spiritual gifts tests. 

• Aside from our internal questionnaire, we use a TraitsPlus assessment and review it with a consultant. 

• 6 months regular attendance, and leadership discovery sessions with a focus on the 5 fold ministry plan. 

5. Beyond having a skill set for the job, what are the most important attributes in choosing a candidate? 

• I want to have a person join our team that would want to join our church. If they don't buy into our mission or philosophy of ministry, then their skill set won't matter much. Outside of fitting our culture, I am looking for someone who has a hunger and a hustle and who will take initiative and figure stuff out even if it means failing. 

• Good personality and cultural fit. Will we all like working together? 

• Humility, integrity, people-skills, and long-term commitments to ministry (not jumping from job to job every 2-3 years). 

• Character, fit, and how the Lord speaks to us, also known as gut feelings. 

• Spiritual maturity and capacity to work with passion for the cause. 

• Are they teachable? Do they have a humble heart for criticism? Are they team players? Can they be challenged to a deadline? What does their spiritual look like? What is the condition of the family? Are they growing in Christ? 

• Heart and passion. 

• Culture fit. 

• Character, team player philosophy, references, evidence or potential for longevity in a role prior to this one. 

• Theology alignment, understanding of the restoration movement, competence, education, experience, attitude, chemistry with other staff members, recognizable servanthood. 

• Teamwork and flexibility. 

• Character, personality fit, ability to build and lead teams. 

• Walks with God daily in prayer and in the Word. Strong commitment to family. Strong passion and commitment to God’s Word, to the Gospel and to evangelism. Trustworthy and faithful. 

• Heart and attitude. I like to use the tools and attributes from one of my favorite hiring books: “The Ideal Team Player.” Are they hungry? Humble? People smart? Attitude and servant mindset are huge. Assessing how they treat people, the waiter at dinner, interaction with staff, etc… Ministry is a people business. They have to have great people skills whether they are an introvert or extrovert. Also, do they have a “good report?” When references are called, I’m looking for the person that past employers, friends, WANT to rave about how exceptional this person is. When we get the silent treatment about a potential candidate it is obvious there are negative attitudes and beliefs about the person. Be cautious. The problem is typically the employee and not their past employer. 

• They must have the balance of both leadership and followship. 

• Experience, work history, and references. 

• Character, cultural fit, competency, Christ centered, and chemistry. 

Firing Practices

1. What is your best advice when terminating employees? 

• Help them come to the conclusion that this is not a good fit. When you know they are not the right person, then be honest and give them a timeframe for the transition. 

• Document the issues that lead to termination. 

• One or two main reasons. Be quick and be kind. 

• Honor the person no matter how poor the performance. 

• There is a talent in you, but you have to find it. This isn’t it. We will be praying for you to find what you love to do. 

• Clarity and quickness – 2 weeks or less termination. 

• If it’s clearly not going to work, don’t drag out the process. 

• Take your time and have clear steps if possible. Be clear at the beginning of hiring of what are grounds for immediate firing. 

• Keep very complete documentation of all communication, reviews, objectives, corrective action plans, and record of conversations. 

• Overcommunicate your position.  

• Have conversations before the conversation. Unless it’s a moral failure or an egregious break of trust/culture, the employee should see it coming. There needs to be clear performance conversations leading up to the actual termination. 

• Be willing to do it. Sometimes, in church settings it is needed, but in the name of “not rocking the boat” someone is allowed too long to be in a position of ministry when they need to leave. Have clear cut expectations and job description spelled out before they are hired and have regular evaluations. So, if they are terminated, it should be no surprise to them. Termination should be based on the clearly defined and clearly communicated job description and expectation. Too often I’ve seen a pastor/minister fired because he/she didn’t meet certain expectations, but these expectations were not understood. 

• Read the book Necessary Endings by Henry Cloud – a great book on giving direction and making the hard calls. My biggest mistake is waiting too long, extending too much grace in an attempt to turn the ship around. I avoid letting people go, especially those in ministry positions because you have hundreds to thousands of armchair quarterbacks who all witness the transition. Church is unlike most other corporations when firing someone. It doesn’t just impact the employee and their coworkers, it has repercussions upon the entire church. 1) The best solution I have found to shut down negative talk and feedback is by going above and beyond taking care of the exiting employee in severance. I once heard – and have found it to be true in 90% plus of my situations: “If at any point your frustration level grows to the point that you mentally consider firing the employee, go ahead and do it then. It is extremely rare that they can ever recover once they have crossed that line. You are only delaying the inevitable.” 2) You will lose respect of your team if you allow a bad player to remain on the team. 3) Being a leader is making the hard calls no one else wants to make. Trust your gut instincts. 4) We have to make decisions that are best for the church and the team. We hold off letting someone go because we focus on their personal situation or timing that would be best for them. 5) WE MUST put the health of the organization FIRST rather than a low producing employee. 6) You will take hits and take some shots for some of the tough decisions you make – and you can’t always share the reasons for your decision. Don’t second guess yourself. You are led by the Spirit of God and trust you make good decisions.  7) MAJOR INSIGHT/BEST ADVICE: I have found that most poor performances by an employee is the result of a heart change. They don’t like the job as they thought they would. They have served faithfully but now they sense change and God has something else for them. 80% or more of my “letting someone go” is helping them see what they are not seeing or recognizing. “You don’t seem happy here?” “It seems like there is a heart shift?” “What is God saying to you or how is He leading you? I want to help you get where you need to be and if it’s not here how can I help you get to ‘there’?” It goes over 1000% better when an employee resigns to pursue God’s next step than if they were fired. 8) On employees that are nontoxic – I will allow a longer than shorter runway for their departure and transition. 9) If you sense an employee seems to not be with you – check their giving record and history. Money follows their heart. When their heart has left your organization, their money will also – and they start pulling back. Tithing is a part of our pastoral staff lifestyle agreement. Over the years I have had multiple staff pastors stop tithing – and it was accurate – their hearts were gone and ultimately, we helped them move on. 

• Never do it out of emotion. 

• Extend a graceful exit plan but once you have determined the need to terminate, don’t wait. 

• Make sure you have clear and ongoing feedback that has been communicated and documented. 

2. What steps do you take prior to terminating an employee? 

• Firing should not be a surprise. There should be several clear & candid meetings prior to letting someone go, allowing them to make the necessary adjustments. (Except in the case of an offense that requires immediate action.) Performance reviews and plans of correction should be documented. 

• 1) A conversation that we have a problem and what is needed to correct it. 2) If uncorrected satisfactorily, another conversation about needing to let them go. 

• Written performance improvement plan. Make sure there are clear goals and evaluations. 

• Evaluations based on review in light of the job description. 

• I work with them to see if there is a way to move the employee to a new level. If they are still struggling, then it’s time to let them go. 

• Meeting with them, speak to elders or board, listen to their side, encourage where possible. 

• Very clear feedback. 

• If it is performance or cultural values-based problem, we have a three step process for potential realignment/development or restoration. We will be very clear at step one that we expect to see change and effort, or we will need to take further action to step two and they are on a 3-month probation period. We are very clear about what is expected, and we are also very clear about our hopes to keep them or help them find the right place. 

• Begin with pre-hiring expectation reviews, regular reviews, corrective action plans, and verbal and written warnings. 

• Multiple one on one’s. 

• Lay out clear expectations, goals, and objectives that need to be achieved in a set time period. If the clear expectations are not met, the next step is termination. 

• First, long before you consider terminating them, let them know the areas needed for improvement. Give them a timeframe for making those improvements, along with a follow-up evaluation. If termination is determined, then write up an official letter of termination so all is clear. 

• One-on-one coaching, depending on the situation – sending them for counseling, PIP – Performance Improvement Plan. Making it very clear what the expectations are and the “bar” they must live up to in order to remain an employee. Keeping my board and senior leadership aware of the present challenge and that the employee is on probation so they are not surprised when an employee is terminated. Fear is the result of the unknown. By keeping them in the “know,” it alleviates fear that a wrong decision may have been made. 

• One-on-one meeting, then a board meeting. 

• A minimum of three documented conversations that have spelled out the expectations, where they are falling short, ways that they can improve and what will happen if they don’t. 

• Giving them probationary periods with specific areas of improvement to make corrections. 

3. How do you determine the severance amount when an employee is being

terminated? 

• This depends on the situation of the firing and the contribution the person has made.  

• Usually one month 

• I don’t think we as church are used to severance. 

• No severance for terminated employees 

• It needs to be a two-way conversation (negotiation) unless the contract reads different, and depends on the severity of their termination. 

• Tenure on the team and nature of the termination. 

• Typically 1 month for every year served. There are special exceptions. 

• Discussion between lead and executive pastor, followed by recommendation to the elders who make the final decision. 

• Our board determines the amount. 

• We have no official guide to determine this. With us, it’s never been less than 3 months, nor longer than six. 

• Discuss case by case with the board. We typically try to be as generous as possible in this area. 

• No, the Pastor or Rabbi should never handle the finances. 

• 2 weeks for anyone who has worked at least one year. 

• We haven’t had to do that yet. 

5. How do you determine the severance amount when an employee is leaving in good standing? 

• I would be more apt to reward an employee who leaves on good terms. Even if you give a good severance to someone who is leaving poorly, they will still find a way to speak negatively about your organization. 

• Often nothing (unfortunately) because they are going to another job. But sometimes one month. 

• If it’s a pastor, then the denominational standards usually play a role in this decision. 

• None 

• If they are leaving for another ministry job, then smaller. If they are leaving due to life circumstances, a graceful gifting. If they are just leaving, maybe just a couple week’s pay. 

• Tenure on the team. 

• The more helpful and respectful/honoring they are in the transition the more likely we will pay for their time. Case-by-case, what the church can afford and do to help the person transition healthily. We will create a transition plan that has gone from 2 weeks to 3 months for some. We change it from a severance to a transition package. We want to bless those leaving even when they aren’t on good terms. 

• Same as above, but more thought of as a gift. 

• Our board determines the amount. 

• Often, 3-6 months, keeping an eye on when they find another job. 

• Everything from one week’s pay for every year served up to one month’s pay for every year served. No standard formula. 

• Regular salary and a congregational love offering. 

• 1 month for anyone who has worked at least one year to 5 years. 2 months for 5-10 years. 3 months for 10-15 years. 4 months for 15-20 years. 

• We haven’t had to do that yet. 

BEST HIRING PRACTICE :

Never hire someone who wouldn't choose to attend your church if they weren't paid to be there. 

BEST ADVICE ON TERMINATING:

1. Never allow fear to dictate your decision. 

2. When you are letting someone go you are HELPING THEM and the ORGANIZATION.  To allow them to continue only hurts both.   

3. I you are not firing someone at some point something is probably wrong.  Change is good.  Pruning creates a greater harvest. 

4.  Don't own their poor behavior!  We tend to blame ourselves . . . "I could have" . . . "Maybe if I would have" . . . I should have worked with them more", etc...  They are SOLEY responsible and there is no one else to blame.  If they had been a high performing employee they would not be in this place.   

5.  Don't beat yourself up for hiring them initially.  I terminated a youth pastor who had an affair and was unwilling for any kind of restoration process.  I kicked and blamed myself for ever hiring him and then the Holy Spirit said, "The person you fired is not the same person you hired."